They’re taking our Spitfires! - [Contributed Article]

What in interesting blog, full of fact and put the a very informative way. Pruff,if it was needed theat the BNP will use any trick for politacal gain, this one in-fact seems to have backfired a little. Griffen,a man who clams to have studied history must have egg all over his face. Thank god there some other person who as no fear in bringing up this taffy windbags denile of the Holocaust, and before the nurmal reponse to that is troted out by one or two I'll get the anser in first, yes they have said very silly things in the past, but never deniyed the death and suffering of millions of men, women and children.As for the spitfire, its an insult to the country and the men fought in them.

The spitfire is an emblem of freedom and spirit. And the fight against the fascist.

Bit of an own goal.

One other historical point. The Spitfire on the BNP's poster is visibly a Mark V (cannon armament). Only Mark Is and IIs (8x .303 machine guns) fought in the Battle of Britain. Maybe someone ought to go back to school!

Seems someone as been reading the gutter press, and beleiving the crap printed in the (anything but) Independant.
If you looked at the original picture printed,before it was cropped you would see that they are not BNP but a the Nazi National Alliance, and nothing whatsoever to do with the BNP.
The article spewed out by Nigel Morris is a complete fantasy, and is being investigated by the Press Complaints Commission.
I won't get into some of your innacurate comments Warren, only say that this is the usual crap from the Gutter press, and its boring.

I can only comment on what I have read and heard.
Where has somebody claimed the Spitfire was their own, or does this mean any CD, Magazine, or photo of an object decides ownership?
I did not pick the cover so I can't answer that question, and as for the nastiness to Eastern Europeans, well I think you will find that the unions (who voted for allowing more foreign workers at their last conferance) are just as nasty to the poor dears.
As for thousands of workers overseas, try getting a job in France as they are protecting their jobs.
You say that they are doing the jobs that the British workers won't do, well look to Labour for who's fault that is.
I have no problem with anyone that works and pays their way, but object to keeping people with my tax's and that applies to British people as well.
As for repatriation, this is a policy that the Conservatives operated in the 80s, and Labour operate today so whats your point?
I am not responsible for what anybody say's, but if they were as bad as you say why did they get elected,and are well thought of in their wards?
Ibelieve in the policies of the BNP, I am not a racist and do not associate with racists.
I do not intentially harm anybody physically, or mentaly so I am at ease with what I believe.
It seems that anyone who dissagrees with immigration, or objects about different cultures being imposed on them is deemed racist, and shouted down, in order to quieten them, but that Labour tactic won't work with me.

Terry,
Plain Jane is deliberately taking the meaning out of context. From what I can gather, all she's done is copy the info from that tabloid truthteller, the Daily Snail.
The Spitfire is representative not only of an era, but of a communal conscience, and the illustration is there to promote a return to that feeling of community. It was never meant to be an accurate depiction of anything in particular, more, it was meant to bring to the surface the abstract spirit shared in times past.
Take no notice of people like Jumbo Jane, they are impressed with their own cleverness, because no-one else is.

Did Winston Churchill agree to the mass murder of 1 million white Russians under Stalin's request?

Why the request, why Churchill's agreement?

But, Terry, your leader wants me to 'do it to the Muslims before they do it to your daughters'.

Not sure what the Muslims are about to do to our daughters and what I'm supposed to do beforehand.

Can you clarify?

Nice one Hugh, the Mark V replaced meny of the Mark I and Mark II in 1941. The main actoin they took part in was early counter atacts into France. Dear oh dear, for a party who prids themselfs on history,they are not doing to well at the moment.

Also to show how little the BNP know Bud Flanagan mentioned in the piece used to regularly give money to the 43 Group.

If you are unaware of the 43 group see here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/43_Group

Terry, by the gutter pess do you you mean commics like The Sun, The Mirror, The Star, The News of the World and The People, I dont read the buggers mate, belive you me they don't get one cent of my cash peddeling the filth they do. I saw the Mirror the other day, it had a full page report on Hitler's farts, I ask you. All I said was the taffy Griffen denied the Holacoust, and he did which in turn ignored the death and suffering of millons on men, women and children before, during and after the second world war had ended. You know me mate, I think bringing up the wars a cheep ploy and not realy needed. The poster as British National Party printed on it, but if the Nazi National Alliance are behind this then that worst still, just becouse of the bloody name, anyway I'll got and have a root aroud, see what I can find out.

Warren, Nick Griffin questioned the numbers that were killed, not the fact that it happened, so he was not denying the Holocaust, which nobody in their right mind could.
Yes I do mean the comics, Sun, Mirror, and the rest.
The press and media are openly biased (as has been proved time and time again) to anyone who does not subscribe to the left wing of politics.
Journalists are bound by their own code not to report any good news regarding any right wing party.
Their influence on the public in elections is based on who they think will look after them better, they court one party (no matter what they have done) and get them elected through their papers.
This story of the CD backed up with a photo of thugs (National Allience party) was originally a full photo with the Nazi National Allience emblem printed on a banner to the left of the thug in the picture, untill it was pointed out to the Editor, who then immediatley had it cropped out, but still left the rest of the photo in to imply they were BNP.
The press and media scream they are presenting a fair and unbiased report when all they produce is just disstorted untruths.
One such case is Peirs Morgans article about prisoners misstreatment by British soldiers that possibly created more deaths of servicemen in Iraq, and certainly pushed a few more extremeists to fight against British troops, and was proved a lie, but all he got was the sack.
Now this piece of human scum is making millions as a presenter on TV,instead of rotting in prison where he deserves.
As for the CD itself how many CDs can you purchase with the war years music on, my bet is hundreds.
This CD does not carry any mention of the BNP on it, it is just a selection of popular music from that era, that you can find on many CDs.
This is just the Gutter Press hyping things out of proportion in order to sell newspapers, to the gullable public.
As I have said before, lets wait and see if the press complaints commission do their job and make the Independant print a apolagy.

Griffin's notorious and obnoxious comment regarding the Holocaust was as follows.

"I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lamp shades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the earth is flat… I have reached the conclusion that the ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie and latter witch-hysteria."

This was from his 1997 pamphlet "Who are the Mind-benders?" in which he claimed that Jews controlled the British media. That's only just 12 years ago, and after Griffin became BNP leader.

And here we see Terry Turbo trying to convince us that all the media are controlled by the liberal left. Presumably that includes the Telegraph and Daily Mail who seem from the Internet to have been first with the Dame Vera Lynn story.

Terry I would have to agree with you on meny points, infact most bar the one on Griffen, but you know my feelings on him. As for that a***hole Peirs Morgan, that prat needs locking up just for being Perirs Morgan.

The picture of the poster is on the BNP website.

As the young'uns might have it, pwned!

Well done for a fascinating bit o' research there, Plane Jane :)

Thanks Terry for the recommendation to Melanie Phillips' article. She and I do not have many views in common, but we both agree that the BNP are "obnoxious". She also found another great quote from the leader of your "not racist" party. According to Melanie Phillips, Nick Griffin said; 'We affirm that non-whites have no place here at all and will not rest until every last one has left our land.'

"I believe in the policies of the BNP, I am not a racist and do not associate with racists." you say. But you won't deny the quotes from the BNP councillors, and the fact that some people voted for them does not make either non-racists.

I note you did not even attempt to answer my point on BNP opposition to "mixed" marriges. If there is any one single policy that defines the BNP's agenda as racist, rather than being about trying to preserve British "culture" or "tradition", it is that.

By the way, your marketting guys seem to have put their feet in it again. Did you know that you could get an album of Irish Republican "Rebel Songs" from the BNP merchandising site?

http://kirkunity.blogspot.com/2009/02/bnp-selling-irish-republican-music...

Is that all part of your history and culture too? A bit of an odd choice for a party pledged to reunify the British isles, though. No better at Irish History than WWII it seems.

I believe the pamphlet of Griffin's that I refered to was what led to him being successfully prosecuted for incitement to racial hatred. I am therefore a little surprised you are not acquainted with it.

My points regarding the spitfire are firstly, that because it is a symbol to very many of us, from right across the political spectrum, of the fight against fascism, it is inappropriate for any one political party to attempt to claim it as its own and make political capital out of it.

Secondly, it appears you have done a spectacularly lazy piece of work in picking a plane from a Polish squadron in the light of current BNP nastiness towards Eastern European workers who are here doing jobs that in many cases would otherwise not be done. For example, I have a Polish NHS dentist, and to my knowledge there is not a queue of unemployed English dentists queuing at Hanley Jobcentre.

You are right that we are in recession. The last time we were in serious recession, lots of UK workers found employment in Europe - remember "Auf Weidersehen Pet?". There are hundreds of thousands of British workers employed across Europe right now.

As for your final sentence, you really must be having a laugh. Isn't that going to leave you short of at least a couple of City Councillors here in Stoke? After all, only last year Ellie Walker declared she was a "racialist" - which my dictionary defines as a synonym for "racist". And I believe Michael Coleman is on record in a Sentinel interview from only a few years back as saying he was a racist "and proud of it".

And what about that repatriation policy of yours - specifically to tackle non-white immigration, unless I am very much mistaken? And the one about not allowing "mixed" marriages? If you're planning to chuck the racists out of your party, Terry, it looks like you will have to start right at the very top!

Wasn't it the Daily Mail that funded Hitler?

How many German prisoners are on record in British POW camps on May 2nd 1945?

How many were still there one year later before and release dates?

Plane Jane, I have not seen this article you refer to,but will look it up and comment.
I have read and listened to most of the speeches by Nick Griffin and never heard or read any denial of the Holocaust, quite the opposite in fact.
I give my viewpoint as an individual,who has seen two of the death camps, and make no judgements on the number of people murdered by the Nazi scum, who got what they deserved.
This was not reported first in the Mail or any of the others, the Independant brokered this lie first, and the Mail followed with the Dame Vera Lynn threat of prosecution, (lets see if this comes about) and were the first to be reported to the PCC, for falsly discrediting a legal political party, no dought the others will be reported as well.
As for "hyjacking" the spitfire, since when were symbols of my heritage, and history banned to anyone.
We were accused of hyjacking the flag at one time, and my answer to both of them accusations is " I have the right by birth to use any symbol that represents my history and nobody has the right to stop me".
You use the past to excuse the present,ie immigration.
Most of the foreigners that came to fight alongside England in the last war had lost their countries to the Nazi's and were fighting to get their country back,and we were bloody gratefull they did, but that does not mean we are responsible for their descendants.
We are in recession,and cannot cope with the influx that we have seen in the last 10 years, as we have not the resourses to do this.
Do you belive the LibLabCon party's would not use anything to try to gain votes.
The BNP do not want Nazi sympathisers,or Racists in their party, we are continualy getting rid of the bad element, unlike the other party's who promote theirs.

Excellent article, Plane Jane, and wonderful riposte to the BNP pretensions.

Plane Jane, you can pick and choose bits of whoever said what all you like, but the fact remains that I agree with the majority of policies Of the BNP, and there are some I dissagree with, its called politics.
I am sure anybody supporting any party has doughts about some of there policies.
I don't blindly follow anyone,I make up my own mind.
You fail to answer about the Labour Tory repatriation policy's, then come up with this mixed marriage thing.
Well personally I don't give a damm who wants to marry who,its their choice.
You say I don't deny anything about the quotes from the councillors.
If you read my post properly you would have found I did.
Finaly if you have read the comments, you would have found the majority dissagreed with her summation, and constantly used the words, Facists, and Obnoxious to describe the Labour party, and supported the BNP, even old Labour supporters.
I suggest you read it all, you will find more support for the BNP, and there policies, than anyone else.

Plain Jane, so the BNPs repatriation is bad but Labour and the Tory's is good, because ours is "supposedly" voluntary?
The clue is in the word "voluntary" with a substantial cash payment, and a cash payment to their country of origin, they will be given a "choice", if they decline thats it, end of story.
Read the policies again there are no racist ones amongst them only what people twist to their own political aims.
I have tried to answer all your questions honestly, so I will just say you have your opinion, and I have mine, and as they say never the twain shall meet.
Thats politics.

Before you all jump on the bandwagon read Melanie Phillips column in the Daily Mail yesterday, then read the comments attached to it.

Were 200,000 German prisoners of war, post May 2nd 1945 at the time of VE day murdered by order of Field Marshall Montgomery and Winston Churchill in an act of Genocide?
Were German prisoners of war forced to unearth mines in minefields with no protection and some were shot for not doing so?
Does plane Jane have the answers?

I quite agree that it would be odd to agree with every policy of the party you support, but I still think you are fighting a losing battle in trying to argue that the BNP is not a racist party.

Labour and Conservative governments do indeed repatriate people - people who by law do not have leave to remain in the UK, or have forfeited their right to remain here, again for some legal reason. What the BNP is proposing is "repatriation" - supposedly voluntary - of people who not only have every right to remain in the UK, and have full UK citizenship, but may have several generations of ancestors born and raised here. People who rightly call Britain their home. But this is to be applied to non-white people, of course.

"This mixed marriage thing" is a core principle of the party you support. I am glad you personally have the decency to disagree with it.

About the councillors, you wrote: "I am not responsible for what anybody say’s, but if they were as bad as you say why did they get elected,and are well thought of in their wards?" This is not a denial that either admits openly to being racist (or "racialist").

That the people commenting on Melanie Phillips' article included people who supported the BNP proves only that some people who read the "Daily Mail" support the BNP. It does not prove that they are right to do so, or that the BNP are not an inherently racist party. It merely confirms my worst fears about the Daily Mail's readership.

Finally, Terry, you seem to have nothing to say on the bizarre commercial activities of your party. Is it simply that "Excaliber" will flog anything they can get their hands on that is out of copyright, even if it is completely at odds with their ideology?

The BNP hate Eire and openly call for an end to 'foreign interference' in Northern Ireland's affairs.

It's a gaffe by the BNP using republican songs and Plane Jane is quite accurate.

I feel that you are attempting to cut and paste into this gaffe by claiming she is wrong.

The BNP do not countenance Eire but 'invite them to form a Federation'

Gerry Adams will love that one.

Gary Elsby.
You are completely off the mark. How can you villify a nation of people because of the cowardice of a handful?
Unity will only happen when it is completely inclusive of all the indigenous British races.

Well done, Terry, you've called in back-up from the intellectual wing of the local BNP and got Brooneyes to write something for you explaining away your party's Polish squadron spitfire gaff.

Neither Terry Turbo nor Brooneyes has yet explained how the BNP come to be selling albums of Irish Republican songs when their party has the deluded aim of ruling a united British isles.

Both are prime examples of what someone commenting on the BNP's cancelled Liverpool rally called "pratriotism".

Wish I'd thought of that one!

Surely to God, if your aim is unity, then you have to
be even handed with everyone? Or does your bigotry against
the Irish republicans exclude them?

Plane Jane what is your point, you keep changing the questions?
Spitfires, mixed marriage, polish pilots,now irish republican songs, wont your brain keep to one subject.
You realy are becoming boring.
Are you trying to write a book on the bnp, if so try getting your facts right, you silly woman.
Your little anti bnp rants are sending everybody to sleep.
People will make up their own minds.
Your party are failures

First they call for Britain only for all the white "indigenous British races".
Next they will they call for Britain only for all "Angel-Anglo races" with blonde hair and blue eyes.
THEN where will you be "brooneyes"?

Last week, Brooneyes came to Terry Turbo's rescue on this site and informed us:

"The Spitfire is representative not only of an era, but of a communal conscience, and the illustration is there to promote a return to that feeling of community. It was never meant to be an accurate depiction of anything in particular, more, it was meant to bring to the surface the abstract spirit shared in times past."

No wonder Terry and Craig had to leave the BNP - talk about "off message". It seems Nick Griffin now claims the BNP deliberately chose a Spitfire with a Polish pilot.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5845768.ece

Brooneyes also said:
"Take no notice of people like Jumbo Jane, they are impressed with their own cleverness, because no-one else is."

Wrong again, guys...

Am I wrong?
Is the Spitfire not representative of an era?

And you do think you're clever, you're just in a group of one!

Plane Jane I fight my own corner, and silly comments such as "off message" don't help.
You would be better spending your time finding out the facts.
We are not BNP members.

It's disappointing that the Polish spitfire 'specially chosen' to front the BNP Battle for Britain campaign has disappeared from their website.

Could it be that this has something to do with the legal action being taken by the American owner of the image, whose copyright work the BNP stole.

The image was generated, legally, from a model produced by an ex-pat Pole.

The image that is being used now is fudged - presumably to make it more difficult for the copyright owner to challenge its use.

Well spotted, Colin!

The BNP's "new" Spitfire, lurking under it's fund-raising target, appears to be from the photos of New Zealander Richard Seaman who publishes as "The Flying Kiwi".

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/YankeeAirMuseum2006/High...

I wonder if he knows?

Plane Jane and colin, get a life, also no one owns an image, much the same as no one person owns the flag, it belongs to all British born people.
You lefties think you are clever but you are just an embarrassment.
You Stay here while the rest move on to subjects that are important.

also no one owns an image

I disagree as a photographer..

The relative importance of a subject is held by an individual.

Judging by the reaction in the press and on this site they've done a good job, promotionally speaking. Having said that, being the marketing manager for the BNP is probably the easiest job in the world......and who gives a toss what kind of spitfire it is in the real world - get back to painting your airfix models

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