Wol on the week!

Tony the last i heard ibbs is still in the crap with the police isnt he,and isnt Meredith in the same boat?
as for irving well he will get his at the next election if we ever get the chance to vote again, and all the backslapping wont do you any good they still wont give you the time of day.
Joy garner is just a waste of space, with no bottle to come on here and debate she,s a coward who runs away when questioned.
this is another dressed up emb.

Tony i'm shocked. Have you been standing by anyone smoking substances. Ross & Roger might have time served but lets not forget its the time they have been serving which played a part into sending this City into its current state.

I don't dislike your oppinion as everyone as a right to voice their views etc however this does not mean i have to agree and i don't.

You say Joy needs to build on people skills. Have you never been around when these 2 addressed people in relation to education.

You praise John Daniels, I first met John when he stood as an Independant cllr on the Blurton Ward and spoke to him at an EMB meeting a few months ago and i would personaly use the word arrigant rather than characteristic.

I must say one thing Tony and this is the first critisisum have ever made of you or any of the team but i'm quiet shocked with the way you started this blog tonight it does not appear the way a professional which you have always been would of done it.

Re. The elections why should people have to wait an extra year? There is no way an all out election would be a good move, what would happen every four years if we ended up with a total change in Cllrs? It would cost us a small fortune in training and there would be no continuity.

Meh, no I guess I don't like

Tony
sorry but I can't agree with your view that Ibbs and Irving can possibly improve their standings in their ward. If they were to pave Trentham in gold and wear sack cloth for the next 2 years in my opinion nothing can make up for their betrayal of the interests of their constituents over the Trentham high school issue.
Just a thought, perhaps if the new cabinet met in public where they could be asked questions and listen to the points of view of the public and took those opinions into account BEFORE making their final decision then we might actually have an improved system of local government. I was shocked to discover that the old EMB made it's decision before the public meeting and simply performed a show pretending to listen to other councillor's views before all unanimously voting as had been pre-determined.

Irving and Ibbs failed as local Councillors when they refused to support the people of Trentham (even a gesture would have been nice) - but more than this they treated them with distain (which Irving continued to do after TAG won). He obviously has no respect for the people of his ward and I cannot see how he still has the temerity to turn up as the representative of Trentham. You may like them and respect their experience but when they were required to show some back bone and fight - they failed - they put their own interests before those of the public they are supposed to represent. This will not be forgotten.

Just wondered if there is a part 2 to this - what about the other cabinet members? Will Ross put a stop to the Common Purpose influence?

the issues and ideas of the councillors would goto the cabinet via the scrutiny commissions, where normall councillors can make their voice heard. i cant see need to have what would be a full council everyweek, the only time i can see for other members needing to speak is on called in decisions

"There are many calls for an election next year. Some people are feeling robbed at being denied their chance of having their say in who does or does not represent them.

I can truly understand this stance, and I have every sympathy with this view. But equally I can see the other side of the argument."

A tad naïve my friend .. the alternative to a ‘democratic process’ is a ‘NON-democratic process’ there is no mid point (by definition … consult the text books!) What organisation in their right mind would set out on a major re-organisation without first satisfying itself that the founding principles were sound. The democratic process is faceless and cannot be compromised. You either have it or you don’t. Forget that at your peril my friend.

also there would have been an election for new leader by the people this year but that too was cancelled a local election could easily have taken place last month

I agree with Ian.

The burden is on non-exec councillors, through the scrutiny commissions, using the Forward Plan of the decisions that come forward to get the information they need prior to a decision being submitted for decision at Cabinet. That way they can deliberate over the issues and make formal, evidence based recommendations and the Cabinet can consider these and attach due weight to them.

The notion that anyone can turn up to a meeting of a committee of which they are not a member and cause chaos is ridiculous and is not conducive to effective democracy in action. The reality of the situation is that everyone needs to be more open and more committed to listening - through those processes. You're wrong on this, Tony. Go to other authorities and observe their practices - it was reported this week that the Newcastle cabinet received two reports on recommendations from their scrutiny body and allowed relevant members to speak on the report with their recomendations - that is a good way of working.

Everyone should do their work before the meeting and not re-create the chaotic environs of the former EMB.

Rumours are doing the rounds that Labours Regional Office and Rob Flello have just destroyed all the goodwill in the Stoke labour Party.
One section of the Party has broken away and refuses to have anything to do with the way they attack D4S winners who removed the mayor.
Shame isnt it.

Wondered how long it would take for a rumour to start to circulate.

Just wish it was a bit more accurate.

Mick Williams.

mick what is the truth then?

Maverick - Little bird told me Ross is sympathetic to CP (as are a number of other elected members - but only those who tick the correct boxes ....)
Mike Wolfe was (and is) a most enthusiastic supporter of CP which didn't do him any harm when he got voted out and was looking for another job.
There are many disturbing developments concerning CP which a number of us are investigating.

LastHero.

whats mike wolfe development company called "forth state" very telling, as for tom reynolds and joan bell they never replied to my emails about CP either..

For the rest of us who aren't in the know - what's 'CP'?

I sometimes read 'The News of the Screws' - when the Sunday Times is sold out of course.

You Tossers. Come on down! Or stick to that back room in Pinks.

"in my opinion nothing can make up for their betrayal of the interests of their constituents" - couldn't agree more kp!

All so very well put Daniel! Wonder when they have to report back to the police - it was supposed to be this month - and have they? But we've heard no more officially and only have rumours to go on as to who is and who isn't going to be charged. Tony has obviously heard the rumour on one of the accused but notice he doesn't mention the other.

Nicky has had too much. I demand that the women of this Forum put her to bed.

He's only in let's have a go at Trentham and must support the tories as a libdem mode, don't bother to take him too seriously.

"Have you never been around when these 2 addressed people in relation to education." - Exactly!

On elections, like you I prefer the thirds system. But the key point here is the way in which the system is being imposed by dictatorial central government. If a system of whole council elections had been arrived at by proper due process I wouldn't be so riled and complaining about it. But it is totally out of line labour doing it for warped party political reasons. We should have had a whole council election this year, as you normally would with a change of electoral system such as we had in getting rid of the mayor. I wouldn't be so concerned, if we did end up with a complete change of councillors that would be because we'd decided they were all cr*p so it would be for the best. What would be more likely is we'd keep all the good representative ones and just boot out the rest. We could do with a good election soon after all the stuff people have had to put up with under the mayor. If not, well when they do let us vote we'll know full well who to vote for and not to vote for, given the contempt certain parties and representatives have treated us with.

"they refused to support the people of Trentham (even a gesture would have been nice) - but more than this they treated them with distain (which Irving continued to do after TAG won)"

Absolutely, it's not just the lack of support, it was the way they did it.

"He obviously has no respect for the people of his ward"

Absolutely too, that's why I can have no respect for him.

"This will not be forgotten." - It most certainly will not be forgotten.

More wise words there Lotto, very well said.

Pooter@ try google for common purpose or try actually reading the posts on here, there have been many explaining what Common Purpose stand for.

Labours AGM went ahead as a whole part of the party walked out in protest that Rob Flello installed a puppet as his spokesman,
Rumours are very heavy that the entire Stoke South membership were not considered loyal enough to represent him.
No wonder no one votes labour anymore when this nonsnese goes on.
I'm told that Mick Williams, a D4S candidate will never be allowed into the labour meetings again and thats coming from the Birmingham HQ.
Anything to revenge their mayor and Flello is the man seen as carrying out that order.

Lord Lucan - I'm with Mick on this one - I just wish what you say were a bit more accurate.

Lucan that would explain why certain councillors who wanted leadership all resigned from D4S... i find the whole thing quite spooky really... why would someone who has been a member of D4S suddenly resign???? PErhaps that the truth is that they no longer want involvement due to regional pressures from another office??

Perhaps they only pay lip service to the words democracy???

It's no secret (he wrote to all 500-odd Labour Party members in the City) that the regional director felt that D4S was an 'inappropriate organisation' for Labour members to be involved in. There was also a later message from a national official to say that public debate about Labour Party matters 'must stop immediately'.

These are paid officials (the 'hired help') and in any democratic organisation the will of the members must prevail. It is specifically forbidden in Labour Party rules (a public document) for any paid official to be involved with the election or appointment of any candidate or representative. Several of us feel that this is honoured more in the breach than the observance.

I have been sorely tempted to walk away from Labour over the last 48 hours but have resisted that temptation because it is MY party (not theirs) and to leave would be a betrayal of the founding principles of Labour. There are those who will obey the diktat of party officials in the belief that they constitute a higher authority but they are mistaken - the highest authority in any democratic, bottom-up organisation is the membership.

This has recently been demonstrated by several ordinary party members and I am grateful for their expressions of support. D4S has not been proscribed by the Labour Party and remains an option for its members to be involved with. Remarks about them 'resigning' are inaccurate - a few have decided to take a lower profile which is understandable when they have conflicting priorities. Indeed, these remain as members, having paid their subscriptions, and tell me that they are still supportive of what D4S stands for and what it is trying to do.

Again, it is no secret that the Labour Party is presently going through some hard times but it is not widely known that this will come to a climax at the end of this month. My sources are utterly reliable but my lips are sealed as to who they are and what they know. It is a matter of public record that we have had a succession of General Secretaries (Triesman, Carter, Watt, Collins) in a very few years and this indicates deep-seated problems for those familiar with organisational theory - especially as it applies to the Party.

[Lord Lucan - I am not a 'D4S candidate' - we do not mount candidates - yet ! I am the Convenor of D4S and can say categorically that I have received NO resignations at all. On the contrary, there are several new expressions of interest which are likely to result in a rise in membership. Very welcome if we are to expose CP.]

Naturally, as is usually the case, as soon as this post hits the site there will be a crop of anonymous comments trying to put their own spin on the situation. In many cases an intelligent guess will likely reveal just who these are (and one has admitted to using no less than four aliases). It is for readers to decide just how much credence they give to such postings.

Mick Williams,
Convenor D4S.
(and Labour Party member 1964 - ?)

mick has cllr barnes not resigned from d4s then?

Ian Barnes said in open full council that he had resigned.... the plot thinckens

Let me be one of the first anonymous posters to spin.
What an illuminating retaliation from Mick the red !
Its very interesting that he says that D4S are not fielding candidates yet !
Perhaps this was the plan all along, disrupt the labour party then set up another political group in Stoke.After leaving the local labour lot decimated. Also very interesting that the D4S convenor states that no one has resigned from the party, so this must include labour leader Barnes.Who as other posters point out stated at full council that he has left D4S,(and as rumour as it given an undertaking to labour HQ that he is now nothing to do with D4S) why then is the D4S website still registered at his home address ?
Just sitting, waiting to be revived, all this CP nonsense is just a smoke screen, they need a conspiricy theory to keep people active, D4S are a poitical party,not a single issue campaign group set up to abolish the mayoral system as they claim to be, they are waiting to seize control (or try to) of Stoke by any means they can fair or foul.
I hope the labour party see this lot for what they really are, they kicked out the mayor, tried through Barnes to get the council leadership, now he failed they will try to bring Irvings cabinet down.

Tony : New Leader New Star and admire Ross, with hope in my heart I decided to ask him the Question none of the other Cllrs or Officers seems to know.

Who much is it cost to tranpsort green waste to ashbourne now, and how much is 15yr contact likely to cost?

Surprise Surprise ... Your message has been deleted without being Read

no changes their then eh Nicky, sorry to shatter your dreams Tony

Why walk away Mick, when everyone supports you?

This is all becoming very interesting.

Perhaps we will hear more about D4S when the full story is revealed about how the Labour leader and his supporters drove out 3 members of their group in as many weeks (and more to follow?).

As they say, it will all come out in the wash.

Yes Ian they never learn. I suppose in the case of Ross, he doesn't need to bother with people if he's accepted he won't get elected next time. Clearly he won't get elected in Trentham but I have wondered whether he and Roger will try to stand in some other poor unsuspecting ward, in which case they ought to be trying to engage with people more.

They do not seem to realise how important it is to the ordinary citizen to be afforded the courtesy of at least an email response at minimum. From my experience of emailing many councillors in the schools fight I can say that the probability of a response and usually a very meaningful one at that, is much higher from the independent groups or from the bnp than from the main parties. To be fair to labour I have had responses from a few labour councillors on occasions. But unless my recollection is wrong I don't believe I had any response from a tory or libdem, including two of my three ward councillors. And the main parties wonder why the electorate turn away from them?

My take on this...

It's no secret that D4S with it's anti-mayor, pro-committee system beliefs is in direct conflict with the national party stance of more Mayor's and a dilution of the strength of local councils (we have a very centralising Labour Gov't).

So obviously, ordinary Labour Party members find themselves in the situation of agreeing with D4S but being instructed to follow the national party agenda.

Although D4S is an independent organisation and not a branch of/under control of the Labour party (as a Lib Dem and having met and attended a D4S meeting I can vouch for that) It has attracted a lot of support from Labour members who are unhappy with perceived dilution of democracy locally.

This goes to the heart of traditional Labour verses ZaNuLabour and whatever happens I sincerely hope that the local Labour Party and D4S can work out their differences and work together with other like minded groups and parties for the betterment of Stoke.

As for those councillors who have left the Labour Party group, at least one of these has already proved that they are more interested in keeping the EMB-CP vehicle on track, and that is more important to them than their loyalty to the Labour party.

Of course, I could have this all wrong, but that is my understanding.

David,

"that would explain why certain councillors who wanted leadership all resigned from D4S… i find the whole thing quite spooky really… why would someone who has been a member of D4S suddenly resign???? PErhaps that the truth is that they no longer want involvement due to regional pressures from another office??"

I'm sure you've read that exactly right. Labour are becoming less and less democratic, anyone who wants any leadership role needs to kiss goodbye to democracy (as well as socialism which went out the window long ago).

Mick,

"It’s no secret (he wrote to all 500-odd Labour Party members in the City) that the regional director felt that D4S was an ‘inappropriate organisation’ for Labour members to be involved in. There was also a later message from a national official to say that public debate about Labour Party matters ‘must stop immediately’."

Democracy inappropriate, public debate must stop. That from the labour / common purpose 'powers' is sounding very fascist to me.

Mike Barnes said he resigned from D4S and there was a blog on pitsnpots about it too. So either he is willing to lie about this to try to get somewhere within the labour party, or it is actually true. It seemed to me he gave one good reason why he should resign from D4S, because he wanted to spend more of his time fighting the BNP. Whilst I don't think it's a good use of a councillor's efforts to spend time sniping at another party, it is consistent with resigning from D4S. For him to fight the BNP would be inconsistent with the objectives of D4S, firstly because the BNP is a legitimate political party allowed within a democratic system and secondly because D4S is supposed to be a group encompassing all political parties and none. Although it seems to me, at least on the public face of it, D4S is a labour dominated organisation.

I had been getting pretty bored with all the talk about the internal labour goings on. But this is more interesting now we hear of these rifts between Rob Flello and labour. Especially, whether coincidental or not, when we have a flurry of pro-Flello blogs on PnP and a cessation of the labour rift blogs, over the last week or two.

Well I think it is quite clear that everything Mick Williams says is right.

It was like when Joy Garner was in the EMB and she tried to have me gagged and have a sanction against my PPC placed against me for speaking up against Labour... what she forgot that was that i was not a memember of her party and that the Labour Party control did not extend beyond her own party.

This is just another example of Labour trying to stiffle all decent from where ever it comes.

NEWS FLASH - Labour have no control over me!!!! Nor my party. We shall continue to expose what needds exposing and fighting for democracy.

Now how come that last post i made being critcial of Labour and supporting democracy had to wait for moderation.... a conspiracy?? :-)

Rob Felloe 2007-08

blank receipt £95
cleaning £210
Council Tax £2176.58
Food £2110.74
Furniture buying/removal £345.79
Home Insurance £273
Hotels £190
Mortgage £6341.47
TV Licence £135.50
Utilities £555.43

total £12350.51

T Dan Smith ! now I really am worried.

This guy, with his mates Poulson and Andrew Cunningham (who chaired the Police Committee) managed to exert influence even whan banged up ! (Allegedly Cunningham's son John - Cabinet Minister, remember ? - managed to get his Labour nomination via his dad's contacts even though his dad was 'at her majesty's pleasure' at the time !) "Our friends in the North" was less a work of fiction and more a dramatised TV documentary than most folks realise.

As regards "resignation" you will have to consult the D4S Constitution (yes, we do have one) for the correct definition. We have no control over what people say - and much less on how other people interpret it.

And we are NOT a political party. Several members have suggested that we field candidates but since we need a democratic decision to do this they must wait for a majority to be in favour. My personal view is that we have enough political parties at present and what we need is a body which sits outside these and takes an honest view of systems and processes - as our 'Mission Statement' says:

"Democracy4Stoke exists to co-ordinate and support the efforts of those
(of all political persuasions and none) who seek to establish a form
of governance for the area which is decent, honest and legal and
which truly reflects the wishes of its citizens."

It really is that simple.

Those of us who are in political parties will usually try to persuade their comrades/colleagues of the justice of the D4S position and seek to get it recognised - not "proscribed".

We do make very strong representations to all levels of governance concerning many issues about which we feel democratic procedures are not being used. I will be pleased to send a copy of our latest (to Rt Hon Jon Denham MP - the new Secretary of State - last Thursday) to anyone who requests it. However, I clearly can't send to anonymous addresses - much as such people might benefit from receiving it.

In democracy,

Mick Williams,
Convenor, D4S.

BIGGLES :O

Yes yet again they have refused to provide how much the City Council is spending on Common Purpose Training, what are they hiding if Common Purpose Training is for the Good of the City? but then again they aren't happy to provide how much they are spending on IdEA Training that too is supposed to improve Councillor abilities.

Maverick, Ian, asked FOI about how many on CP, and how much did it cost.
Answer it will cost £450 to find all the relevant information?
Absolute garbage as the money comes from the city council, and "should" be open to scrutiny in the accounts.
The Common Purpose secret army is keeping a stranglehold on information to the unsuspecting public.
Stalin would have been proud of them.

mike: cant find you constitution please post a copy or a linke, I can only find these pages as you main webpage seems to be down at the moment, has your constitution defined a new meaning for resignation? is Cllr Barnes Still a member, of D4S? Does Cllr Barnes still support the aims of D4S either a private individual or Labour member?
Your website did indicate that you are currently working on Policies, are these policies for a D4S group or to be submitted to the Labour Group? who do you wish to implement your policies when they are formulated?
Why not publish your letter sent to to Rt Hon Jon Denham MP , now on this blog? as I depending on the SOS decision I will be submitting FOI request for all correspndence sent in for the soundings period which will then of course be available for all on whatdotheyknow

what did maverick say? cant see a post from maverick.

Anyway I've now asked

Can I have a breakdown of your costings?

Who many departments are involved in funding Common Purpose Training? Why not one Central location for Training costs?

why would accessing information from budget from previous year would cost so much?

Would it be cheaper If asked for just copy of the department that funds common purpose complete budget?
that way you do not need to search the whole budget or extract the information just provide the spreadsheets.

In your previous email you said "The response has been written by
myself and all requests that are from the media or from a website
that automatically publishes our response, go through this
procedure."

Can you confirm that this is the response written by yourself and
submit to unnamed department and unnamed officer for authorisation?
has it been altered in any way?

and submitted new FOI for just last year 2007 to present, will that still cost over £450?

Wow!

What a S**t - stirring topic from Tone! Betcha didn't realise the dormant passions this stirring would provoke eh Tone?

What a mischievous topic to raise. Yet another one who should get himself a girlfriend - now come on you Ladies...

Another thing to support my above post.

Did you all get Tone's remark (Hey!) about farting in Spacesuits? Surely this embarrassing display of trying to be 'hip' is nothing more than a cry for a Girlfriend?

Tony. it's always been Chocks, Flowers and Poems, shyly delivered atop a Haystack after a good day's tramp in the country that gets the girl.

Honestly, sometimes I despair.. Will we ever get him married off?

Rabbits ? you say Biggles??

The ones that go down on Warrens? :-)

Fed up with bashing Tony, he refuses to rise to the bait...

Sorry Poots,

I have just finished my stint on Ace radio.

I'm married matey and definately off limits to the like of you my ugly little friend! Beside I wouldn't want to come between you and Forrest [Gump]!

TTFN!

Poots,

Why don't you open your mouth and do a back flip and swallow yourself!

Let the bashing commence! lol

Ha, ha.ha! Well said Tony, and I am duly standing still to receive a bashing.

Still intreguided as to what the £60 for bedromm equipment was....

Perhaps she keeps rabbits?

Dontyer just love this place!

Where's the girls tonight. Surely the dishwasher and microwave can be trusted to look after themselves?

"Why don’t you open your mouth and do a back flip and swallow yourself!" - that's fantastic Tony! A real giggle.

Soft Furnishing are popular aren't they, even got there own catergory, sadly doesnt say if all matching like Joans Maple Collection.

BTW randomly came acroos Charlotte Atkens receipt for Carton of Milk £1.75 that wass all was on it and she claimed for it

From those that are published seem some missing, no receipts for food over £250 is one, anyway make of the below as you will, or give us hand on finishing 2007/08 http://mps-expenses.guardian.co.uk/mp/459/

MP Rob Fello 2005-2006

Cleaning £289.50
council tax £995.72
Cutlery £86.75
food £664.75
Soft Furnishing £962.23
Kitchen Equipment £97.29
Mortgage £8821.48
Repairs/insurance £532.05
Telephone £131.32
Utilities £523.24

MP Rob Fello 2006-2007

Cleaning £100
council tax £422.86
food £1960.55
Soft Furnishing £719.05
Mortgage £8400
Repairs/insurance £280.35
Telephone £39.05
TV Licence £131.50
Utilities £734.86

Pooter: Where’s the girls tonight.

We were here Pooter - in our place holding your coats and false teeth while you attended to the important stuff ie. fisticuffs!

Lol Janice, love it!!!

Pooter, you asked for that one, lol, well said Janice.

There seems to be a lot of these 'soft furninshings' purchases.....

Councillor Irving’s expenses for the WHO business meeting in Portugal is as follows:

Return flight: Manchester – Porto (Portugal) = £204.67

4 nights accommodation: 4 nights @ £50 per night = £200

Return taxi to and from Manchester airport: £46 return

Food: This information is not yet known as receipts for food have not yet been submitted.

Total: £450.67