Stoke-on-Trent BNP Councillor responds to Nazi Salute Photo

you say in your article some people might be offended,well a lot more people are offended by the labour ,conservatives and lib dums the way they have deliberately swamped britain with third world immigrants so as they can dictate comunism to the british people .they have delibaretely brought this once fine country to its knees and it is the british working class who will suffer the consequences.our children and grand children will be brought up in this country without identity and culture and the country will become a third world slum.bankrupt britain on its way .nothing left to sell and we dont have any industries anymore,while we sold everything for short term gain,other european countrys including france and germany bought our industries and gas and water etc.all gone now to foreign countrys and all you can do is complain about the bnp.is it not time you started to listen to the british people instead of trying to destroy them.britain rest in peace and god bless the millions who died in two world wars defending our land against foreign invasion.

Guest, rarely do I read such special olympic gay drivel. The world is constantly changing and the problem is the slow, like you, want it to stop in your comfort zone. We are evolving away from fractious nation states and the global economy is already here, with companies that transcend national borders. People like you and the rest of the BNP underclass, not working class, have no culture save the pint and the kebab neither of which are in any danger, so why you keep whining about cultural erosion is beyond me. Besides, societies and cultures are always evolving and changing, and people are always migrating, this idea that a govt deliberately swamped us with immigrants is pure fantasy dreamt up near Welshpool. If working class people want a better life they should make an effort instead of blaming everyone else for being bottom of the heap. They have free education so there's no excuse for kids to do badly at school and not have a start in life.

If you can't see the damage then you, my friend, are already a part of the problem.
The matter of mass immigration was not dreamt up in Welshpool - the Labour Government already admitted their own liability for that.
Batkin may not be the World's greatest anything but this is the first time I have ever heard anything negative about him - odd that it should come now and linked so obviously with the Alby Walker incident. Odd also that the picture is so old and only just turns up. Though I suppose that miraculous coincidence was totally lost on you.
It's about time that people removed the blinkers and started asking questions rather than swallowing the same old repetitive and libellous tripe. If the other parties are so good then why is this country in the pathetic state that it is in ?

The BNP have an office in the Civic Centre? Well that will go when we get a chance to throw the remnants of them out.

I'm amazed by the twisted logic that sees 6 million deaths as a holocaust yet can almost dismiss the murder of 300,000 as some kind of clerical error!

No one who gives nazi salutes can call themselves a British patriot. You cannot borrow our flag and you cannot lay claim to our country. My brother and I were shouted down on the Sentinel site during the election for saying they salute the foes our fathers fought... this photograph vindicates us completely. They are the real traitors. They spit on the graves of true patriots who died for our country fighting their kindred spirits.

In the light of the election results we most definitely have them on the run. I ask all true Brits, all true Stokies to maintain the pressure. Get out and vote next year and lets cut out what little of the cancer remains.

tonyjohnt "dismiss the murder of 300,000 as some kind of clerical error! "

Nice choice of yours using the picture of Che Guevara to remind us all of the 100 million people killed by communism in the 20th century. Is mass murder , revolution , terrorism OK when it's done in the name of communism!

Just listen to the man. He's clearly not very bright. What does it say about our democracy when a simpleton can get elected? Perhaps it says more about certain sections of the electorate.

My first comment is on behalf of my dog-:
"I would like to say, as a Staffordshire Bull, I have no connections to and Fascist party or group, this includes Blood and Honour and the bloody BNP."

The second comment is my own-:
Will someone please tell my what 'worklessness' is, I would think its a illness of the backside, maybe being unable to get off it and do something for yourself. Sorry to speak ill of the dead, but Batkin, I refuse to call him councillor or Mr, because he is not worth it, offended hundreds of thousands of troops who died in the war in that photo, so there you go.
It don't matter how many people where killed in the Holocaust, it was a damned sight more the 300,000, but it don't matter, 4,5,6,7,8 million, its still the single most evil act of the 20th century, if not in history. What Batkin forgets is that the Jews did not have a homeland at the time, and were widespread over much of the countries Hitler invaded. It was not only Jews that where killed nether, any group not thought endemic by the Nazi's and them who stood by the Jews, defended them where also made victims of the Holocaust.
Before this interview, I had not passed comment on the photo, it is an old one, and I would, and still do, think that this point alone would make any comment unfounded. What he is saying about the Holocaust, is frankly, utterly sickening.
Tell the truth.... please remember, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. You show proof of the 100 million dead you say, even if you did it don't hide the fact that millions died needlessly in the Holocaust.
Guest at o7.53, no he's not, not very bright at all, in one fell swoop, he's proved what I've, been saying for years.
BATKIN, YOU'RE AN IDIOT.

"BATKIN, YOUR AN IDIOT"

Warren, we can't all be as intellectually gifted as you.

Some of us can't tell the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE.

Thomas, its not what you say or how you put it, its how your mind works, and Batkin's a brainwashed, braindead idiot, always has been, always will be. If the idiot wants to come on and defend himself, the buggers more then welcome. I've just about sick to the back teath of the fool, and others like him spouting his dribble and pulling the area down to his level, the bloody gutter. Council elections next year, we'll have him and the others gone.

He is just the sort of person that has to be expunged from the BNP if the party is to make any strides forward. He should have left for the National Front. Only a leadership election can sort these issues out. nick Griffin is too contaminated by the past and too corrupt in the present to lead the party anymore.Nick Griffin is entirely responsible for BNPs thrashing at the election, and his ridiculs claim that we got more votes is entirely false because he engineered that by standing more candidates. Britan needs a reformed BNP to face the cultural marxist main parties which now all occupy the center-left ground.

Will All you Guests , please step forward and join the site? you make interesting points but it's impossible to reply to you as Guest....

The BNP vote is increasing gradually each year so all the marxists posting on here are deluding themselves.It will not be long before the coalition starts to spend less and tax more thanks to Labour spending money we don't have. No, you would like the BNP vote to collapse but it will only increase in numbers of voters backing them and also the share of the vote.

The only people deluding themselves are the BNP.

Let's look at recent election results and see how stupid they really are.

Votes in 2010: 563,743
Votes in 2005: 192,745

So the overall national vote almost tripled.

Candidates in 2010: 339
Candidates in 2005: 119

So they fielded nearly three times as many candidates.

Hmm, not hard to work out that if they are standing in three times as many seats then there's a strong possibility of getting 3 times as many votes nationally. However the vote per candidate barely changed from 1,619 in 2005 to 1,667 this year. Hardly an indication that the party is on the rise. The Tories on the other hand increased their vote per candidate from 13,944 in 2005 to 16,931 so a very visible increase in support.

Locally, they increased their vote in Stoke Central by 0.1%!!!! Wow, on the way to Westminster there then. Up by 0.4% in Stoke South, and a whopping 2% increase in Stoke North. However, Barking, where Nick the Pr*ck thought he was going to romp home their votes fell by 4%, yes that's 4% less people voted for them than last time.

This rise to power was accompanied by losing 265 deposits. Yes, that's right, 265 out of the 339 candidates failed to get more than 5% of the vote in the constituency they were standing in, what a ringing endorsement. It could have been worse, the English Democrats lost 106 out of 107 of theirs.

Then there's the local election results. What was it, net loss of 26 councillors nationally?

Let's be honest, the BNP have reached their high water mark, this is the end of the road as far as getting into power is concerned. If this coalition government delivers on what it promises and the Tory-supporting tabloids tone things down support will ebb away and all that will be left are the hard core loonies which was all they had in the 90s.

"Britan needs a reformed BNP to face the cultural marxist main parties which now all occupy the center-left ground."

Ha, ha! The main parties are centre RIGHT, the BNP is economically left of all of them. As for 'Cultural Marxism' that's another meaningless phrase used by the far right to describe their opponents, like 'liberal-fascism' and 'Marxist-Muslim'. It further shows how the BNP have no idea about any ideology whatsoever, merely a hatred of outsiders wrapped in nationalism.

I clearly heard Councillor Batkin say in the audio interview that "Albert has always been motivated by money".
Having been a supporter of both Steve and Alby I was not the least a tad sceptical of this claim so decided to delve further by ringing Alby to get his reasons and motivation for both joining and leaving the BNP.
Whilst I can say Alby sounded very reasonable and genuine regarding most aspects of the probing questions, I came out of the call a little shocked to hear some of the things Alby asked me to question about his former coleague Steve Batkin.
I have tried to phone Steve but always get the answerphone and he has not got back to me yet.

If the Pit's n Pot's team allow me I will summarize what concerned me.

A few years back Steve batkin did not pay his council tax and claimed that asylum seekers filled the payment office making him scared to enter and pay which was made public in the media.

I was told that in order to vote on the council budget any councillor must be up to date with council tax payments or they cannot attend the council meeting where the budget is set.

Question from Alby that I must ask Steve Batkin about: "who paid your council tax arrears of £400 in 2008 in order that you could attend the council budget meeting and vote on the budget setting".

Question from Alby: "why did Steve Batkin leave the council chamber at this years budget setting meeting as the debate started and did not return for the vote".

Now I do not know the answers and Alby would not go any further than to suggest I ask Steve but if this looks like it sounds why should I pay my council tax to pay a councillors wages when they do not even pay their own.

If this is true I am an ex-BNP voter!

I agree with guest at 11.38, there is a place for the BNP, much like there is a place of UKIP and The Greens, but it means new leadership and better thinking of the way they present themselfs. UKIP do it, they prsent themselfs very well, hard line of imirgration, want out of the EU, yet they don't come over reacest. The BNP do, and its members like Batkin who do this, no matter what he says, it comes over as such.
And if this thing discribed by Townsend Resident is right, I think Batkin sould be kicked off the council and taken to court for non payment of council tax, asylem seekers in the payment office indeed. Lets put it way, if it was me and the office was full of bone idel, workshy drunks, the very people I dislike, I would have no problem walking in and paying up, I'll never have that problem though, as I pay mine direct debit each month, becouse I, and most others, posses something in my skull, its called a brain.

Cultural marxism is not 'a meaninless phase."
If the Ed may alow me I direct to to a couple of short lectures:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8txDhreBwRY&feature=PlayList&p=B2CD95B46D...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUsimQ3iJVY

Thanks to Phil and Steve for providing this interview. It's good to have a variety of councillors interviewed on pitsnpots.

Steve's right about the banking industry running the country and the world and there being something seriously wrong with that, as shown to be the case by recent events. Now Obama trying some reforms of banking I would think is moving into dangerous territory for himself.

I'm not convinced by Steve's argument that immigration is likely to cause that much conflict though, I think most people just get along, a sensible immigration policy is a good idea but a complete stop to it wouldn't be flexible enough. Sure if there are large changes in population or variance in the birth rate it can cause issues with provision and things like pupil numbers and providing for them are things the council has notoriously not done well. So council needs to be properly aware and provide appropriately.

I think Steve is right to carry on as governor and councillor, to which he has been appointed and elected by due process. Undoubtedly the old photo is disrespectful, this is the trouble when people like those he is with drink too much, it's no excuse, they shouldn't. But he regrets getting caught up in it and was only there because of being at a funeral.

Nicky, a quote from Cervantes - Don Quixote:

"show me the company a man keeps and I'll tell you who he is".

My children are adults now. I wouldn't have wanted Batkin or anyone of his kind having any influence (however slight) on their education when they were kids.

Is it coincidence that we opponents of the BNP brand them nazis, then a photo like this comes to light? I respect my forebears... they obviously do not.

tonyjohnt - " I don't recall condoning murder by anyone" You confirm my point about your double standards as you think it is OK to admire "Che" someone that is an everlasting symbol of communism - which I will repeat again is guilty of 100 million deaths.

warren lloyd "You show proof of the 100 million dead"
It's a historical fact - please feel free to look it up. The fact that we only ever talk of the holocaust & never about the 100 million killed by communism is more than a little selective, many memebers of the labour party are or were communists - the 100 million deaths has never been a hindrance to their careers as communists are never asked to justify their actions.

You are both selective of crimes you condemn.

Tell the Truth, again one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist. Any amount of of posturing will not hide the 6 million or so kill needlessley in the Holocaust. I think within the numbers you quote, 100 million killed fighting communism, a large number of that would be troops of curupt govenment pressed into defending there power base, and people killed by these troops and the blame pinned on communisem. By the way, I'm no power to the people red under the bed, I just like to see people treated with understanding and respect. There are two sides to every story, and I can see both sides of most, but when it comes to Hitler, Germany and the Holocaust, you have to ask yourself why, its plan to see that he was truely mad.

My finel input into this matter, thats if Batkin all of a suden learns how to move his computer off the BNP website and trys standing up for himself.

Estermated numbers of deaths in consetration camps run at 3.5 million, not only Jews but gypsies, prisners from the Soviet Union and others. The numbers that were killed on the streets, in getto's they were forced to live in, by the condistion there were forced to endure, not only in the gatto's but also being trasported to camps, and defending themselfs can not be guessed at I should think.

warren lloyd - the 100 million killed by communism has nothing to do with war or fighting - they were killed by extermination , purges , genocide , forced famine etc.
My point is that if the far right are always questioned about the holocaust then the far left should be questioned about the 100 million.
you say "There are two sides to every story" EXACTLY!!!

Tellthetruth, most people are neither far-right or left, and yet they still dislike the BNP and any overt symbols of racism.

For comparison's sake 'tellthetruth' how many deaths have been caused by capitalism (or any other -ism) ?

The real truth is that the deaths you refer to were caused by PEOPLE - not ideas. Ideas can be very powerful and there are often times when PEOPLE ignore concepts such as minority rights to promote them.

The supreme irony exists in Cuba, where Castro's communism is often accused of ignoring human rights and yet the island is forced to accommodate the American camp at Guantanamo Bay - because the American people would not stand for it being in their own country. Most people call this hypocrisy.

I have a good friend who is a simple working man from the Black Country and he travels to Cuba every year for a few weeks, staying with ordinary Cubans like himself. The picture he paints is vastly different from that which the average tourist sees or that which we get from the world's (capitalist) media.

redmik

Whilst never agreeing in entirity with anything the BNP stand for or say, i do have to say that this holocust drival has raged on for years and anyone who says anything that doesnt fit with the Jewish version of events is labelled anti semit and so on.

When i was at school we were taught that 3 million Jews were annihalated by Nazi's in the second world war, by the time my children had started school the figure was now around 5 million and finnaly today we have 6 million.

The truth is that millions of people died in WWII, not just jews, so why do we give them such credance of place? What makes them such a hard done to peoples?

And as for the holocust, i can honestly say it never took place, read the definition of Holocust, the four horsemen of the apocolypse and all that. The truth is that a section of society in Europe who happened to be jewish were put to death in the most horrid of circumstances and this is the lesson that we have to learn to make sure it never happens again.

Yawn, the "100 million killed by communism" has been comprehensively debunked - it, for instance, includes everything from the people killed in the course of the Russian civil war to America's war in Vietnam. This isn't to say the regimes of Stalin and Mao don't have blood on their hands - of course they do - but it's best to be accurate about such things is it not? After all, you wouldn't want to look like you're scoring cheap political points off the bones of the dead.

And as for this cultural Marxism piffle - quite clearly the people in the youtube video haven't a clue. I had a very long debate with a BNP supporting idiot here about the issue. Some might find it of interest. The chap I debated quite clearly shows the flip side of ignorance is stupidity.

i cant believe he says people express themselves through staffordshire bull terriers, thats the funniest thing ive heard all year.

I like the way some supporters of the BNP and their ilk latch onto certain "catchphrases" when attempting to insult those who oppose them,
"limp wristed lefties" and "do-gooders" spring to mind as the ones being in voge at the moment,

of course, when one points out that if it wasn't for the men and women of the RED army who took on and defeated the might of Hitler's Nazis, we might well be living in their fascist utopia right now,
and not forgetting the "limp wristed lefties" who stood up to, and defeated the most powerful military nation ever known to mankind, the NVA and the Viet cong, vs the USA in Vietnam,
not bad for limp wrists eh?

and "do-gooders", apparently, in their twisted logic, doing "good" is now a bad thing!
if it wasn't for these "do-gooders" quite a few of their detractors would have died in childhood or child birth, (no NHS) they would have had no education at all, and probably have been working down a mine or in a factory for 14 hours a day from the age of 6,
and we would be living under something very similar to sharia law,
stoning, and public execution for even minor offences, hands chopped off for theft, husbands OWNING their wives, with the power of life or death over them,

but then they get all irate and angry about the idea that people want to impose sharia law on them,???

but ask them their opinions on crime and they want the death penalty for drug dealers, hands chopped off for petty theft, the return of flogging with a birch, etc etc,...
they are as bad as if not WORSE than the people they claim to oppose,

Well I knew that you only had to mention the BNP for contributors to the site to get very excited, but I know think that the hot weather is starting to drive some of you mad.

I've had my run ins with the old socialists on this site before, but never have I seen such a disgraceful mirror image of the sort of extremism they accuse the BNP of as that offered above by Owd Potter.

His praise and admiration for the Red Army-an army that carried out numerous human rights attrocities not only during the war but in the years after it-is truely sickening. Its not ok for someone on the site to priase the actions of Nazi's, but it is apparantly ok to glorify those of the Communists. Never before has it been so clear that a lot of the old socialists hold as extreme a view as those they accuse the BNP of having.

And as for David Jack's comments, well I think that the Liberal Democrats will now be thanking their lucky stars that they removed this extreme individual when they did.

Did it not cross your mind David that perhaps history teachings adapt to fit the evidence that emerges? Is it really so difficult for you to understand that what was known about the holocaust decades ago was less than what is known today?

And is your anti-Jewish bigotry really so blinding that you will even fail to recognise that the Jewish community were a particularly (as you say) "hard done to" group during the war? Was this status not justified by the systematic persecution, terror and fear of death that this community faced in Europe during the 5 years BEFORE the war?

Was it then not justified by the systematic extermination of an entire people under the cover of war in both the squalor of concentration camps and in the specially created death camps? An attrocity so bad that trained Alled forces that liberated them were sickened, and their stories not believed for a long time? And remember that these Jews were not enemy combatants but innocent men, women and children who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Are you really so uncharitable, or just generally brain-dead not to be able to stomach the "special attentions" that this group get in remembrance? Grow up!

I again post on behalf of my dog, who would like to point out that no-one has ever tryed to express any right wing feelings thought her. If they did, she would bite there balls off. She would also like to know if the fact that Hitler only had one ball is true or was it a lie made up by the Jews.

Shaun, read up on the battle of Stalingrad mate, you'll see what we mean. It smashed the German Wehrmacht, it nerver recoverd after that. Russia went thought hell in WW2, lost millions, but just kept pushing. Ask me, Russia won that war, with help from us and the yanks. Wars war, nasty, bad things happen, we learn form them and we try not to do the same shit again.

Will a Photo of Mr Batkin with others doing a Nazi Salute, really Stop people voting BNP?

SEE there ya go again Shaun, not only missing the point and getting you history a tad wrong, but putting words into my mouth as well,
I have read through my previous post and I can't see where I am "praising the red army" I am just stating facts,
the red army,...remember they are the ones that Hitler and his thugs called "sub human",
defended their country, not only from an unprovoked attack but from an act of extreme treachery

(Russia and Germany were allies at the time having signed a non aggression pact)

and they also were as much, if not more so, our "saviours"
as the USA,
it was they who Hitler turned his attention to, believing that if he either defeated them, or won major victories against them, then Britain would sue for peace, or even join him in his war against the Russians,

by taking the brunt of Hitler's aggression the Russian people bought us, and the USA time in which to build up our arsenal and to train our troops in preparation for the invasion of Europe,

the red army committed "atrocities" against the people who had invaded their country and murdered millions of men women and children, and who wiped out entire villages as reprisals,!!
I can't say I BLAME them for some of their actions, while certainly not condoning them,
the vast majority or rapes committed by the "red army" were carried out by the less well trained (less socialist)? troops who followed up the Russian front line troops as they advanced into Germany,

the My Lai massacre, or the gang rape of the young girl in Iraq, remind me,....which countries troops were responsible for those atrocities?...oh it was US troops wasn't it?
and again the US entered their undeclared war on the people of Vietnam, to try to prop up a corrupt unpopular leader....but hey, at least he wasn't a commie eh?
the vast majority of the people of Vietnam supported the communists
(but the yanks never do let a little thing like the will of the people get in the way of THEIR wars)
and then the yanks enter the war by attacking one of their own ships and blaming it on the north Vietnamese,

and an army of people, some of them armed only with bows and arrows, defeated the mightiest military power the world has ever known,

and some pro BNPers call "lefties" limp wristed,
that's all I was saying,

as for the holocaust lets just all agree that the Nazis murdered a LOT of people based on nothing more than their race or religion,
and given the chance I am QUITE sure that a large number of BNP members or supporters would happily do the same,

Good to see people enjoying the article...what did you all think about some of the other things Cllr Batkin said?

A relative of mine who knew Steven Batkin from his work whilst not sharing Batkin's polical views recalled an incident in Bentilee when Batkin helped someone who had learning difficulties who was being harrassed by some yobs. He may be a fool but in this instance he did do his best to reach out to a member of the community who was having a tough time.

In some ways that anecdote says something of the way in which the BNP can do community politics pretty well and I know that I can be accused of stereo typing here but there are instances of Labour Councillors whose response to the needs of the constituents is to metaphorically heave half a brick at them. There was a Abbey Hulton Councillor I knew from the 70s and 80s Stuart Hancock who used to drink in the Plough at Endon because he did not want to be bothered by his constituents. Another Councillor Gittings from Tunstall used to book his holidays at election time so confident was he that he would win. He was beaten eventually by Wanger.

Lets face it there have been Councillors of the main parties who have been it for the prestiage and the expenses and whose impact on the lives of their constituenst has been nugatory.

The solution to tackling the disaffection on which the BNP feeds is to do something about the underlying causes on which the BNP feeds unemployment, poverty, jobs, security.

Sometimes I think that the arguments just go around and around on Pits n Pots. People shake thier heads at the foolishness of people like Batkin but few if any offer anything pragmatic or practical

Having friends and relatives living on Bentilee I can understand your point Bill. The BNP have been very good at doing the seemingly small things that make a difference to individual constituents, such as cutting hedges or clearing fly tipping. It has been a very successful strategy with many people who don't share their politics still seeing them as a party who actually get things done.

The local Labour Party would do well to take a leaf out of their book in this respect.

I do not think this means opponents of the BNP should cease criticising or scrutinising them however. The issue at the core of this thread is that appalling photo. It angers me because this party claims some kind of monopoly on patriotism, on "Britishness".

What would Winston Churchill have made of a group of scrubbed up skinheads posing before a war memorial, holding a Union Flag aloft and giving a nazi salute? It strikes me as such an insult to our war dead it borders on treason.

With this single image the BNP have forever forfeited their claim to be the party of patriotisim and I for one will never let a chance to point that out pass by.

No real problems hear on the sound front Phil, just needed a good set of earphones. As for what I heard, just the normal BNP stance, the use of unqantified fear. No paid repatreations, they would kick off and start civel war, if thats not the seeds of fear, I don't know what is. Has for his reading of books on the Second World War, looks like he raided the BNP bookshop for them. I have read many to, no-where have I seen the victems of The Finel Solution estermated as low as 300,000. In all honisty, I thought he had a srcew missing before the interview, I'm sure of it now. I once talked to a copper who had encountered Batkin running up the street he lives in, dressed in a sailer boys uniform and carrying a tin of cat food, he was not doing much harm so he let him be.

And think about this one, if you are running for elceted office, would you in your right mind alow yourself to have your photo taken in the middel of a high street, waveing a flag around with three men who are members of a hard right wing group you have know to have been drinking, and you know are more them likely going to give it the ol' wave to Adolf just as the birdie pops out. No, think not.

Bill... helping someone with learning difficulties who was being harrassed, I would think anyone with human feelings would do that anyway, if they were aware of what was going on, if it was happening round near me, I would.